Tonight I listened to Rob Bell’s interview with Lisa Miller of Newsweek discuss his new book Love Wins.
Miller’s questions were pointed and focused, much like those which were asked by the crowd and online viewers, but Bell’s responses were rarely direct. Instead, he offered a series of philosophical reflections blended with stories that left thick ambiguity hanging in the air.
Some will defend the thick ambiguity as the style of Jesus, who often answered questions with questions, but most of the people I know watching tonight were aching for a solid answer and explanation on what Rob really believes and why he believes it—which is a fair desire considering that at the end of the day this is still a book promotion.
Do I agree or disagree with Rob?
The answer is neither. I found the responses so vague and nebulous I’m not sure what Rob believes.
So without a pre-release, I can’t comment on the book, and find myself wishing a whole lot of other people would hold their tongue and keyboards, too. I’ve been embarrassed by the number of online snipers taking shots at Rob in the name of Christianity who haven’t even read the book yet. Where are wisdom, discretion, and self-control?
As I reflect on what I watched tonight the image I have in mind is one of a boy playing in a mud puddle in the middle of a storm. He’s got a wide smile and glimmer in his eye. He’s joyful and delightful. To be honest, watching him puts a smile on my face. And I wince at the mudballs that are being thrown in his face by kids passing by. I’ve felt the sting and nursed the welts myself and wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Not everyone is throwing mudballs though. Others are diving in and building their own mud castles on the shores of the puddle. Still others and gathering and watching the events unfold.
Yet when I look up to the sky, I’m reminded that we’re in the middle of a storm.
Lightening peels. Thunder crackles. Flood waters rise. People are leaving the church and walking away from faith in droves. Maybe it’s not the best time to be stirring up the mud in puddles. Maybe it’s not the best time for ambiguity and murkiness.
I find myself wondering who will really win from Love Wins?
Some may say Rob wins as his book will sell because of the surrounding controversy, but book sale numbers aren’t a balm for the unkind words that have and will continue to be spoken about him. Rob knows this book will cost him the kinds of things that money can’t buy but has chosen to engage anyway.
Others will say that love wins as the book stirs conversation and forces people to examine their faith. Oh, how I wish that were true! But I’ve read too many scathing reviews of Rob and his ideas online. If anything the book will lead many to draw lines between “us” and “them” as the exchanges between people of faith online become even more personal and mean spirited. I don’t think people are going to know us by our love if they read the reviews and interactions on this book.
A few might suggest HarperOne wins. They may be right. With a pre-release campaign that’s currently pushed it to No. 6 on Amazon.com, HarperOne will win financially, but let’s not forget that publishing is an industry facing countless challenges and it’s going to take a lot of sales from a lot of books to carry the publisher.
So who wins? Maybe nobody really wins.
And maybe that’s okay. Maybe like stumbling upon a boy playing in a mud puddle on a stormy day, we glance over, smile, and then get on with the rest of our lives.
Who do you think wins?
(The stream is being replayed at Love Wins on live streaming. For other thought-provoking posts on this topic, visit: Gary David Stratton and Scot McKnight).
Wow, Margaret. These are the best thoughts I have read yet about this whole ordeal. Thanks for putting them into words.
Well said, Margaret!
Nicely put.
I think HarperOne wins bundles of money. However if the book sticks to Biblical truth I believe thousands may win eternity. The book is so popular even without being available yet (as you stated) that if people who are seeking a loving God get it you never know what might happen. From what I know of Rob Bell his genuine interest is for others to come to know Christ, so I think his reason behind starting such a controversy was to cause interest amongst unbelievers. But what do I know…
The devil wins and rob loses. We don’t need ambiguous controversy in an age of ambiguous controversy. Jesus was never ambiguous. He spoken plainly and anyone who reads his words knows exactly the truth about heaven, hell, and sin and truth.
But you are right about one thing: we will all get on with the rest of our lives without a second thought about rob, his book, or harperone.
You win, Margaret. Your words have once again dug in and brought light. My conclusion is Jesus must win and will win. Yet along the way lots people are throwing mud at God by throwing mud, stones or whatever at others. Rob Bell has helped many of us stop and think. He has shed light on our faith. What we have to realize is that our focus has to be God. Nothing more and nothing less. Give grace to our sisters and brothers. Be honest and do it in love. Jesus did. We must. Thanks for doing just that. You are a jewel, Ms. Feinberg.
I tend to agree with you, Margaret, but not completely. I don’t think it’s fair to compare Rob with a little boy stumbling around in the mud. He’s got some very interesting ideas here that I want to explore further. I’m going to reserve judgment until I read the book.
Great thoughts, and even better questions.
I think tonight was about the publisher, not about Rob and was probably not Rob at his best. My hope is Love Wins will provoke us to love and good works.
Tonight during Rob Bell’s Q & A, I was reminded of a powerful quote from one of Brian McLaren’s books:
“It’s none of your business who does and does not go to hell. It is your business to be warned by it and to run, not walk, in the opposite direction! It is your business to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, to love your neighbor as yourself, to have confidence in Jesus Christ and live as Jesus lived. Let the imagery of hell remind you that life is serious business, that there are real consequences to how we live and believe, that justice and injustice ultimately matter more than most of what people worry about. Now stop speculating about hell and start living for heaven!”
Kathy,
Just as a note, I never said Rob was stumbling in the mud. I said he was playing in a mud puddle in a storm. Those are very different images.
Good quote, Katy. It’s not our business who goes where but that hell is a powerful reminder and compelling force that we should run in the opposite direction (and I’d add to bring as many people as possible with us.
Actually, Christ Wins. I read “that book” and in the end he wins. As far as Love Wins, I think this is classic Rob Bell and no one should put out a statement until they have weighed the evidence. Thank you Margret for not sounding the battle cry or dirge defeat and the end of the church age. These things, such as Bell’s unreleased book, make controversy because Christians unthinkingly and unlovingly spout off dogma instead of waiting and “speaking the truth in love”. I know my challenge matters little so I’ll just stick to praying. Coram Deo.
Great post, Margaret.
I have been heartbroken at the division this book has caused – and even more heartbroken as I listened to him talk and watched the accusations being thrown back and forth in the live feed to the right of the screen. There’s nothing about that (in my humble opinion) that glorifies the Lord or draws people to him.
I enjoy Rob Bell and look forward to reading the book. I like that he makes me think. I like that he asks the questions that I ask – because I don’t know the answers and don’t think I’m supposed to. Like he said during the talk tonight, this walk is full of wonder and mystery and the miraculous and there’s something wonderful about that.
Joel,
I so appreciated your comments, but I’m wondering what you meant by “I know my challenge matters little…” Can you help me understand?
I was also confused by the lack of clarity. Rob does have a contagious optimism and it’s likely his style will continue to draw followers — and his ambiguity will continue to draw critics.
I am with you — I still don’t really know what Rob Bell believes. I don’t know if he is being vague for the purpose of poetry — or if he is purposely evading the answers to the important questions he’s asking. These questions are being asked on campuses, in coffee shops and every place else my 19 year old is hanging out. And, these questions come with serious implications and eternal consequences. It’s critical this generation of Jesus followers be equipped to engage in that dialogue and have confidence in what they can and do know for sure — and grace and kindness to navigate difficult discussions with fellow believers who do not agree with them. That’s where my greatest sadness has come from — the mean, acerbic language that’s been used against Rob personally. We must find a way to be civil – even when being direct and holding a vastly different view. The meanspiritedness is chasing seekers away from the cross and causing a generation to run in fear they’ll be lumped in with people who care more about shouting their opinion than in being understood.
Peggy,
That is so true: “It’s critical this generation of Jesus followers be equipped to engage in that dialogue and have confidence in what they can and do know for sure — and grace and kindness to navigate difficult discussions with fellow believers who do not agree with them.” Very, very very true….”we must find a way to civil”
Thank you Margaret! A very calm response indeed. I missed the interview, but I can see how the unclear responses would frustrate those wanting clear answers. In the end, God will win the day through His Son. And, maybe the questions raised by Mr. Bell will push us back to the word to get at the truth of these matters…beyond what we’ve been handed…down to the bedrock of the truth. In the mean time, I think the smug and unloving response of some could be just as dangerous and a warping of the gospel as the questions posed in this book. Thank you again for a very level headed response.
Margaret, I guess better said “I know my challenge matters little”… apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. I say this with the understanding of a “micro-conversation” that is being argued on a whole bigger level. My challenge won’t change the fact that most of the responders here will hear a number of major (and well qualified) pastors and writers already casting deciding votes on an unread book. I know the greatest strength I have is not on charisma or public appeal but on my knees in prayer. I will read Bell’s Book. Hey, I may even Blog about it! But I will continue to speak in love as I trust Rob Bell would do the same for me. That is the only way people will know we truly follow Christ, by our love. Thanks for the question.
Joel,
That makes perfect sense…Thank you!
I love your playing in the puddle analogy. And you’re nail on about drawing the lines further as a result – but maybe any sense of unity amongst the church requires these distinctions. I still think it beats not talking about it at all.
Lon,
True–having the conversation is good… But be smart about how much energy goes in….
Honestly, Margaret, I don’t know what to think anymore. I feel like the girl STUMBLING (yes, I purposely used that word) into the mud pit and trying to figure out what’s going on.
This is how I see it (and I finally found a safe place to say what I see)–anyone who DARES speak against the ideas that may be present in Rob Bell’s book is EVIL and anyone who dares to hope that the ideas that may be present in Rob’s book are true is EVIL. On both sides, I just see mud-slinging. I don’t feel like engaging with anyone.
I don’t want people to CONVINCE me that Rob Bell is right and what he’s saying is right because Christianity needs to move forward.
I don’t want people to TELL me that Rob Bell is a heretic because he wants to love people radically and he thinks that’s what Jesus wanted/wants to do.
So I just talk to the “fake” Rob Bell on Twitter, you know, the one who’s a graphic designer in England. He’s a pretty amusing bloke (who uses the word bloke) and then I feel a little better.
I thought everyone chose a side in this war, but there are a lot of us kiddos just stumbling around in the mud. My real concern is for the confused who dislike seeing the lines of hate being drawn on both sides.
Well written article, I thought.
I could see how watching the event tonight looking for Rob to give concrete answers to all the questions could be frustrating. But that is what I love about Rob. He fills in context, but forces you to figure it out and search deeper for the answers. I’m so tired of this dogmatic way of thinking where we are always right and they are always wrong.
The kind of venom that I have seen believers have for someone who asks questions is really just disheartening……..
Not sure the church is more divided bc of Rob Bell’s book. Perhaps it has revealed the true ugliness of our divisions that have been hiding in plain sight.
” I’ve been embarrassed by the number of online snipers taking shots at Rob in the name of Christianity who haven’t even read the book yet. Where are wisdom, discretion, and self-control?”
That’s what I’m saying, Margaret! I couldn’t believe that John Piper would just flippantly write “Farewell Rob Bell” on Twitter before anyone had a chance to read the book. Didn’t Jesus tell us not to judge by mere appearance?
I was at a Bible study last night, so I missed the interview. My friend Rachel Evans said Bell’s basically echoing what N.T. Wright and Greg Boyd wrote about Hell, except that they articulated the ideas better. I’m not gonna say anything until I actually read “Love Wins” for myself.
Derian,
I’m not sure the church is more divided either. I agree with you that moments like this provide opportunities for those divisions to shine in harsh light. But maybe if we’re gracious and graceful, our distinctions could shine in the illumination of Christlikeness.
I am afraid that this book is, as many commenters have already said, an object lesson regarding what is going on in the evangelical world and I’m going to go out on a limb and make it even more specific and say the 25-45 year old evangelical world. I’ve been under attack lately for talking about “spiritual formation” and have been accused of encouraging eastern meditation and mysticism (but if David meditated, isn’t that “eastern” meditation? I know what they mean but that’s just good humor) by people who are adhering to a rigorously Reformed view of Scripture. I don’t see where spiritual formation is an obstacle to some of the Reformation goals, but I also know that it goes from theological discussions to personality critiques fairly quickly.
I appreciate your levity and willingness to poetically assess the situation here. I pray that through this God is glorified and we are humbled in the meantime.
peace
Yes-es need to be yes-es and no-s need to be no-s. Anything else merely tickles the ear and nothing more.
Great thoughts, thanks for sharing!
Margaret,
Thank you so much for writing this. I’ve been up for hours because I just can’t sleep. Horror in Japan and heartbreak in the church. True tragedy with heaven-and-hell consequences on a tiny island nation while so many of my friends and students are swept up in this Rob Bell hysteria.
Like you, I watched the livestream interview yesterday and could hardly follow Rob’s train of thought. I don’t know if that is intentional on his part or just his artistic nature (artists are nearly ALWAYS better at asking questions than answering them, aren’t they?), but the whole thing still grieves my heart.
You really summed up the totality of my conflicting emotions with your powerful metaphor of mud castles and storms followed by your haunting questions under the banner, “I find myself wondering who will really win from Love Wins?” Could Jesus still win in this battle? I think so. But his people sure don’t seem to have any chance.
I have been a strong advocate for Christians using the media to seize the day away from the pseudo-celebrity making industry. One could argue that this is exactly what Rob is doing. But I don’t think I was trying to advocate for this kind of controversy (it feels so self-serving.) Yet, I find myself wondering if this isn’t an inevitable consequence. Neither side feels very much like servant leadership to me. (I’d love your read on ‘Paparazzi in the Hands of an Angry God: Servant Leadership in an Age of Self-Promotion’ sometime. http://www.garydavidstratton.com/?p=108)
Anyway, thank you for your beautiful thoughts and metaphor. I so appreciate you, your moral courage, and your artistic vision. Can’t wait to meet you face to face.
Grace and great mercy,
Gary
PS My post for today (http://www.garydavidstratton.com/?p=801) is an attempt to use some of NT Wright’s clear thinking to reduce some of the “murkiness” you mention.
Gary,
Thanks for your post–it’s very helpful. I feel like so many struggle with the murkiness. No. Jesus did not answer every question directly. Though he did many. Just ask the rich young ruler. Or those listening to the sermon on the mount. And for those who honestly sought him, who really wanted to know, Jesus revealed himself.
When false teaching appears in the church, it’s our responsibility to point it out. All too often – whether the issue is corruption, injustice, and yes, even unbiblical theology – the church is content to bite our tongues when we should be speaking. Yes, we should season our words with grace, but we should never retreat into silence and ambivalence. Apathy is the opposite of love, particularly when it’s apathy over falsehood.
Is Rob Bell trying to deceive people? Of course not. No one wakes up in the morning and says, “I think I’ll lead people astray today.” He’s almost certainly what he appears: a nice guy, whose heart is in the right place. But nice guys with good intentions are not immune from error, and we should be cautious about defending them simply because they’re nice guys with good intentions.
In the end, truth wins, grace wins, and yes, love wins. But not shallow, tidy, Hallmark love, but true, holy, divine love – the love of a father who is not only grieved, but justly angry at sin and falsehood among his children.
Thanks for the link to Gary’s site and for the N.T. Wright videos with his thoughts on Heaven and Hell. More to chew on…
Thanks for this post.
It’s been so frustrating seeing all the mud slinging… how can we do that and still consider ourselves ‘mature’?
I think the problem is the same problem the disciples had in their ‘storm’… lack of faith. Do we trust Him to do what He promised? Or are we freaking out and taking things into our own hands?
It’s hard to think someone could genuinely pray, say amen, and then turn around and be a gossiper, hater… jerk. Ouch! We take ourselves too seriously and forget that to be like Jesus is to be a servant (no, I didn’t say wimp). We need to weigh the things we say (even think, tweet, blog or mumble)… Jesus said, “And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.” Matthew 12:36-37
Thanks again.
I had the chance to read through the first third of the book this morning. It’s a pretty easy read but asks a lot of questions. They are good questions but they are very threatening questions. I believe the questions and the early responses highlight the split in Evangelicalism that Roger Olson wrote about on this blog last week.
When Bell asks “If our salvation, our future, our destiny is dependent on others bringing the message to us, teaching us, showing – what happens if they don’t do their part,” he is echoing Pannenberg. Are Evangelicals really going to make God’s ability to save another person contingent on how Christ’s follows act? How odd, if that were the case, that believers are saved by their faith and not their acts, but unbelievers’ salvation depends on the acts of believers.
When Bell asks about Heaven, he is echoing Christopher Wright (and N.T. Wright as well). C. Wright responds when asked if he will go to heaven by saying, “Yes, but I don’t expect to stay there.” Heaven is not out there, but rather God will dwell on Earth when the new creation is finalized. This means that what we do hear on Earth matters because Earth is where God will eventually dwell.
So far as I have read, Bell is pointing out the God is much bigger than Evangelical theology tends to let God be. In doing so, Bell is good company, both present and past.
Dan,
Thanks for being so gracious to post AFTER you read a portion of the book :).
Dan: That is, of course, the exact issue Paul points out in Romans 10: “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!””
I would suggest that human free will and God’s sovereignty are more compatible than our individualistic western culture tends to think is possible. We tend to think of these two ideas as completely irreconcilable, but the Bible strongly indicates that God achieves his sovereign purposes in and through acts of free human volition.
As Paul notes in that passage in Romans 10, unbelievers’ salvation depends on the acts of believers, which seems like a daunting responsibility until we recall that it’s not merely our puny evangelistic effort, but God working through all the efforts of all believers around the world in all times and places.
And ultimately, we can take comfort in Jesus’ words in John 6: “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out… And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given to me, but raise it up on the last day.”
None will be lost who might otherwise have been saved. Not a single one.
And yes, our eternal home will be on the New Earth, whether that’s an earth created new from scratch, or whether it’s this earth renewed. An exciting prospect either way!
This is a great article. I always appreciate how direct AND kind you are.
I’ve been encouraged by how gracious the conversation has been throughout these posts–even when people disagree!
AStev,
With all due respect, and I recognize that many people may agree with you, but that is not at all what Paul is saying in Romans 10. I would contend that Paul is saying the exact opposite.
Romans 9-11 are an apologetic for God’s dealings with Israel. Paul is asking these questions rhetorically. Why do I say that? Because he asks related questions again and answers them in 10:18-21. The question in 10:14-17 is, who is “they” referring to. Again, this is clarified in verse 19 where Paul explicitly says he is speaking of Israel. Indeed, Israel had the good news proclaimed to them, in this case, through both Moses and the Prophets, for they both spoke of Christ (Lk 24:44).
Paul is therefore saying that Israel cannot use the inactivity of people as an excuse. Instead, Paul says that God has never let Israel go regardless of the actions of people (although some have hardened their hearts and so rejected God). Thus, according to Paul, God never changed his mind regarding Israel and by extension, we gentiles can also be secure that God is not capricious and won’t someday change his mind about gentile believers. Throughout all of this, the onus is on God being faithful to his promises and his faithfulness has nothing to do with the actions of people.
I hope I am making my point without coming across as harsh. That’s not my intent. I also realize that this passage might be a particularly sensitive issue on this blog and I want to be respectful to that as well. I just have trouble seeing that the Bible would say that God’s ability to fulfill his promises is contingent on humanity’s actions.
Excellent post on this whole thing! I had very similar feelings as I watched last night that was more infomercial than discussion. Real questions met with vague answers. Still, no denying that something is happening and in the midst of this some voices just might get heard!
Margaret,
Great article in CT and post here.
For the last several years I’ve been a Rob Bell fan — still am.
I think you’re right to observe (I think this is what you say) that there is merit to the boy’s play, but that we — and he — need to keep in mind that the play takes place under stormy skies.
Rev. Bell’s mud-play here brings to mind great provocative teachers in secular and Christian higher education who’ve made me think better by posing outrageous hypotheticals.
But the context of a high-profile book differs from that of a classroom. Hence your observation that “maybe it’s not the best time for ambiguity and murkiness”.
Whatever “Teacher Rob” is up to here, I’d be happier if “Pastor Rob” were more definitive about what he’s saying on some important questions.
Joel Webber
Me too, Joel!
Here is someone who has read the book.
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2011/03/14/rob-bell-love-wins-review/
It seems that Rob will lose.
David, no you don’t come across as harsh. 🙂
I agree that Paul is addressing the case of Israel in the chapter I referenced, but I would maintain that he argues this specific point from the general principle that applies to all people, namely, that faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes through preaching / evangelism.
Like you, I would hesitate to say God’s ability to fulfill his promises is contingent upon humanity’s actions.
Instead, I would express it as, “Human actions are God’s chosen vehicle by which he will certainly fulfill all his promises.”
I know the underlying question remains (i.e. being free, can’t we neglect God’s work a la Jonah?) but it seems to me to be what the Bible teaches.
To go further is where it becomes speculation on my part. i.e. if I neglect a chance to speak to my neighbor about Christ, does God have a “backup plan” for that neighbor to be reached? Maybe, maybe not. He doesn’t show us his behind-the-scenes work, he simply tells us to go and make disciples. He doesn’t answer our question of “What if I DON’T go?”
Margaret,
Thank you for your well written article.
But I couldn’t help being disappointed by your “little boy in the mud puddle” analogy. I found it to be demeaning and marginalizing. Akin to someone patting you on your head and saying, “Aww, isn’t she cute, the little lady thinks she can write books?” While your description is as gentle as I’ve seen, it still struck me as unkind as any other.
I see the same storm as you. And you are right that we are stuck in the mud and the efficacy of our mission is as murky as it has ever been. But it’s not ambiguity that has made it so. Those clamoring for hope and shelter from the storm don’t want the mud puddle of our denominations and theological arguments any more than you or I. What they want and need is to see and taste the healing and refreshing that comes from Jesus and in a small way, Rob’s book may help them to experience that.
I don’t know much about you. I sense you are a gracious woman. Ironically, the images of yourself on your own website also communicate a similar free spirited child-likeness that you ascribe to Bell – I mean, you’re kissing a butterfly in one picture! I think Bell’s playfulness resonates with your own. And like Bell, we only get to hear half of what you really think.
Godspeed Margaret and please take my remarks as from one who respects you.
John
I understand how Rob’s answers come across for many as too vague and ambiguous. But is it really fair to expect straight forward answers in yes or no fashion when the questions themselves (no matter how accurate they reflect the same concerns many of us have) just don’t fit the biblical emphasis? How do you answer someone who thinks in a paradigm that sees heaven and hell as consequences God bestows either on behalf of right belief or right action? I would argue that neither fits what the New Testament teaches. And how can Rob give specifics about the afterlife when most of the NT teaching on the subject uses a wide variety of metaphors which actually contradict each other if understood literally?
No, I would maintain that Rob Bell was clear where it truly mattered: God is love. Period. Hell is real – because love is not coercive. The kingdom of God is first and foremost about good news now and lives being shaped by God’s love and grace to bring restoration and healing to a broken world. This is is a different emphasis than the classical evangelical pitch which sees a future rejection by God in the last judgment as the actual problem that needs to be solved. N. T. Wright and a host of others have pointed out the same thing. Rob’s thoughts on the subject are nothing new in this regard.
John,
Thanks for your thoughts and I’m sorry you found the scene of a playful boy as demeaning. I was trying to communicate something delightful, but alas that’s not how you read it. And the picture on my site is actually a bee–not a butterfly though that would have been much less scary. And no kissing bees–owweee!–only looking at them close up to appreciate more of God’s handiwork.
Margaret,
A correction to my post last night. After seeing all of the TV interviews from today, I’m no longer confused about what Rob Bell thinks on several of the issues. I’ll read the book over the weekend, but expect it to agree with his statements from today.
I think it’s kind of funny—in a sad way—that you write all these lovely, thoughtful posts, but you don’t get 50 comments until you mention Rob Bell.
Such is life.
I like some of the Nooma videos, but I’ve never been a big Rob Bell fan otherwise. His writing has always been kind of ambiguous, so I don’t know why anyone is surprised. This is why I don’t always like reading books on faith—a lot of the time, I’m just getting someone’s opinion on God or on Scripture. That’s not useful, and it can be misleading. Unless a text is clearly grounded in Scripture and—without a doubt—won’t get me on the wrong path, I pass.
Can I be honest? I never paid much attention to Bell until this whole controversy of his new book exploded on twitter. I know people who on both sides (it stink that I have to say that). But, I think that when you’ve been given such a huge platform, a lot is at stake, and that is what gets people riled up. Obviously, as you said there is a proper way to go about things. I’m still waiting on the book because I want to see for myself. However, I just saw his interview with Martin Bashir on MSNBC on Love Wins, and it was kind of painful to watch. After watching it, I was even more confused to what he actually believes…
Margaret, I think what you are not seeing is that Rob’s whole body of work, the whole series of “movements” is to call into question the very certainty which “American Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Pentecostal Christians” have turned into God.
Rob’s point: DESPITE WHAT ANY RELIGIOUS LEADER SAYS, GOD DECIDES WHO IS IN AND WHO IS OUT, AND FURTHER GOD MAY NOT EVEN HAVE AN IN AND OUT AS WE MAY PRESUME HE DOES!
Rob was pointedly clear that salvation is through Jesus Christ. What he was obtuse on was the variance of creeds and confessions (or “statements of faith” for my 20th century evangelical readers) over time and the absolute fact that many of the evangelical doctrines that evangelical Christians in America hold as “gospel” actually have more to do with certain reformation movements in the 15th-18th centuries! They have little to do with the narrative teachings of Jesus for this time. And this place.
I would argue that theologically Rob Bell has OUT “SOVEREIGNTIED OF GOD” ALL THE CALVINISTS!
I read your post here a couple days ago and am returning now to say that I think you had the most insightful commentary I’ve read yet.
What’s especially striking for me are these two lines: “As I reflect on what I watched tonight the image I have in mind is one of a boy playing in a mud puddle in the middle of a storm. . . Yet when I look up to the sky, I’m reminded that we’re in the middle of a storm.”
Eph 6 beseeches us to cover ourselves with the full armor of God so that we are prepared for the fight at hand. I don’t necessarily disagree with whatever “Love Wins” may be trying to convey. But I do think it doesn’t address, and possibly may de-emphasize some very important issues. I wonder, how many people out there only have shoes (Eph 6:15) on right now and nothing else? How many people don’t care that they’re in the middle of a terrible storm, naked and without an umbrella? It might be fun now, and God will ultimately heal us if we get sick (i.e., love will still win), but I fear there will be consequences– possibly grave, serious ones at that. And that’s what unsettles me the most.
I also think it’s telling that Pastor Bell “lobbed a book” into a conversation where he should’ve known there would been controversy, and then appears, at least to me, unprepared for it. It seems so haphazard– nothing like the intentionality he described as the “narrow path.”
If anything, I think this whole issue has convinced me that we need to pray even more fervently for this generation, for our world, and for our pastors/teachers. Christ is coming back, so let’s make sure to keep our lamps full (Mat 25)!
I agree with you on many points. As I put on my blog (cumberlandemergent.blogspot.com), too many people started making judgments before the book even came out. I, too, hate this “us” vs. “them” stuff that continues to happen. Its totally non-productive. But, as a vehicle to open the discussion about whether one or more of our traditions may be in error, I hope it works!
Not sure if you’ve read this review, but I hope it helps you with the idea that your Christian brothers and sisters aren’t all just out to be against Bell (:
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2011/03/14/rob-bell-love-wins-review/
Good balanced caution and review of Rob Bell’s interview. I’m with you…let’s not throw mud in his or anyone’s face needlessly. And do we really ever need to throw anything at anyone?
I like thawing confetti at people every chance I get! Celebrations are oh so fun!
Thank you so much for your comments. Unfortunately, we as Christians can be the first to attack our own. Please wait to read the book and form your OWN opinion. Then let God direct your steps from there.
Funny how people can’t simply love, spend time with God and have fun. If you stop fighting with each other, Rob Bell…trying to get into his head. If you stop trying to sound so smart like you have better answers, stop all that you have ever know, spend time with God and you will find love. Funny how many missionaries came to Africa to teach us this and then now here in the US it sure looks like you did not teach your own people. They don’t know love, how to receive it and how to give it. I say this in love, so don’t get angry or have a smart remark to my remark, stop everything and invite love into your live. LOVE.
So, I am curious. What do you think of the book now? I am assuming you read it? What are your thoughts?
I appreciated the non-committal response you gave since you did not have “all the facts” but since you are an author I respect, I would love any helpful insights you could give.
I think a lot of things. But primarily what I think hasn’t changed. If people would just read the book and leave their flaming comments and attitudes in their pocket, like a lighter, life would have gone on just fine. But now that the fires have burned and ugliness of our own hearts and attitudes has been exposed, maybe it’s time to ask for forgiveness–of each other and God–and learn to walk in graciousness.
Ac 17:11 The Jews of Berea were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they very readily received the message with all readiness of mind, and day after day searched the Scriptures to see whether these things were so.
God’s love always wins. As a Christian and I would hope my fellow Christians would stand up and say “YOU ARE WRONG” when someone is wrong. Jesus called the Pharisees—“You brood of vipers” because they were misleading the people! Rob Bell is misleading people. There is a real heaven and a real hell, the Bible is clear, I don’t need Rob Bell’s book to satisfy any curiositiees about God. God has revealed Himself through Scripture, He has revealed to us portions of heaven through Scripture and He has revealed His way to reach that desitination through the Lord Jesus Christ.
It’s time we spoke out against people who are not telling the whole truth. If anyone needs the truth—-GO TO SCRIPTURE—John 17:17 Sanctify them with truth–THY WORD IS TRUTH. Emphasis mine of course.
The two greatest commandmants, loving God & loving people,
are commandments. I don’t naturally love either well.
We are commanded to do it by Christ, implying it’s not habit or easy for us.
Unfortunately, everyday, I’m more successful at pride than love.
But every morning I ask that our God, who is a consumming fire,
give me the strength to love, if even poorly. I would rather fail at attempting
to love than succeed at pride.
I read Bell’s book and heard him interviewed after he published it and its still not clear to me what he believes. I believe that Hell is real and is one of the fears that fuels my desire to ask the Holy Spirit to help me to love, something I don’t naturally do.
I’m a little late to the game on this one but just want to commend Margaret’s admonishment for us to exercise self control and “taming our tongue”. I believe that many Christians live in fear. I think there is a lot of fear in fundamentalist Christian circles – a fear that most certainly isn’t from men; rather it’s instilled by our wonderful, but feeble leaders. Many have us believing that if we so much as look the wrong direction, we have no hope for holding our eternal inheritance. You can probably tell by my tone, that I don’t agree with this perspective. This is why I’ve learned to appreciate Rob’s willingness to challenge the Christian status quo. If we listen, he has a unique gift to provoke us to thought and I believe “thinking” is a good thing for us to do. We need to challenge our faith and notions of who we think God is. I think that’s what Rob does and it’s what he does well. For this, I commend and appreciate who he is and his exceptionally unique calling for “such a time as this”. Do I agree with every word spoken from his mouth? No, but rarely do I agree with everything anyone says. But, I still value his contribution to Christians and to those that have been really hurt by the Church, and are walking around wounded and wondering. I also value you, Margaret. I love that you can stir my heart to desire God like very few that I’ve read before. So, my point…let’s work on loving one another and supporting one another instead of tearing down our own family. After all, “a house divided against itself cannot stand.”
Love and peace – Josh
Oops – just want to clarify a typo: “a fear that most certainly isn’t from men”. I intended to say that it is a fear most certainly instilled by men, not from God.” Thanks!
Hi Margaret… I see that you have a series of studies that you have compiled. Have you thought about doing one on the letter of Jude? Have you ever called a false teacher out by name (Mat 24:11,2 Peter 2:1)? Would you? Could you reprove (Eph 5:11, 2 Tim 4:1-1-4), as we are ALL commanded to do by The Word of God? Look up the definition of reprove in the Greek (Strong’s G1651), you may find it interesting. You have a lot of admirers who look up to you and trust your judgement (no pun intended). They see you as some sort of teacher (James 3:1 ). Do you feel some responsibility for them? Something to think about eh?
-Mat. 4:4
-Acts 20: 26-33
Last question. Have you shed a single tear at the thought of someone who trusts you may end up following after a false teacher because you did not want to “throw mud?” Would you would feel to judgmental in doing so( John 7:24, 1 Cor. 5:12)?
Hi Shon – I know your comment is addressed to Margaret but wanted to add a thought. I so appreciate your stance and opinion on our friend, Rob. He certainly has caused many to think and in so doing, many reject his thoughts. I respect everyone’s opinions as they learn to stand in light of teachings such as his. On to my thought…
As a former church planter and pastor, my family and I were hurt badly (repeatedly) by well meaning family members who took strong stances on their opinions. While I respect that, I think that we should process those opinions through a “love filter”. Loving one another deeply from the heart; bearing with one another in love; crying each other’s tears and laughing over each other’s joys. To me, love and grace is for one another is how the entire world will see life in us – not through our harsh judgments of one another. My hurts through the church plant ran so deep that I almost turned my back on Jesus! So thankful He didn’t let that happen, but you know what drew me back? The love and acceptance I’ve experienced from amazing brothers and sisters. Their judgments solidified the rationale behind my hurts while their love helped me work through them.
I so appreciate Margaret’s stance when it comes to controversy. She has her thoughts, but they tend to come across with such love, compassion and grace. I so appreciate that about her! Her love makes me want to run into the arms of Jesus – she’s one of those sisters that won’t know her impact in my heart until we get Home. My thoughts? Above all else, love reaches further than judgment.
Bless you friend,
Josh
Would you would… Sorry about the typo.
-Proverbs 27:6
-Proverbs 28:23
Shon,
It is so good to see your name–we remember you from our time of living in Sitka–goodness that was years ago now.. We are so grateful you’re still following Jesus and pray you and your wife and kids are doing well and thriving! Where are you living now? We’re in Colorado–would love to hug your neck if we cross paths. Many blessings, Margaret
Hi Margaret… We love you guys very much and hope that the Lord continues to bless you and Leif abundantly. I also want to thank you and Leif again for letting me and Sanae stay with you guys in Juneau while she had work done on her foot. We cannot thank you enough. Thank you again for your love and hospitality.
My family and I are living on Maui now and we had a son Uriah born Feb. 2010. Life is good and the Lord Jesus continues to work in our lives. You and Leif would be most welcome to stay with us if you like anytime. We would be happy to receive those hugs and give some back!
Sorry that the above reply was harsh in nature. Many in ministry hold to a ministry of “love” as we should. But if we are not careful we will neglect the aspect of God’s love (and Word) to be watchmen which does require a great deal of love. A love for God and a love for our neighbor… The two greatest commandments.
All who name the name of the Lord should watch out for the flock of Christ (letter of Jude) and if need so reprove those who would pervert the Gospel (Eph. 5:11, 2 Tim. 4:1-4). As reproving is a public scorn, it certainly seems harsh to today’s society and appears unloving. Those who are watchmen do what they do out of love four our God and Saviour (KJV spelling), and his flock. Even to the public scorn of those who think that what we do is unloving.
Anyway… Love to you and Leif! We would love to see you guys again. By the way right before I got converted the Lord used Leif to speak into my heart. The Lord has been putting you on my heart for a while as you are in public ministry. Continue to speak on the Love of God… My exhortation to you is that you watch out for those who look to you and trust you. Love and blessings to you Margaret. Give that wonderful husband of yours a great big “giant” squeeze from us and you get one to! Love in Christ…
For the testimony of Jesus Christ and the Word of God….
Shon
Love for our God… Not four 🙂
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